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Knots.

Q&A: How can a church practice ‘discipline’ and claim to be ‘grace-oriented’?

Monday, January 17, 2011

Question: If Southwood is so ‘grace-oriented’ and you (Jean) always say it’s ‘okay that we’re NOT okay’ then how come people get ‘disciplined’ by the church for not living as ‘holy’ as others think they should? I think it’s hypocrisy. Ya’ll say you believe in grace, so how can you still ‘judge’ people and tell them that the way they are living is wrong?

Answer: First things first- we do believe in grace and you might find this confusing, but it is precisely BECAUSE OF that understanding of grace that we believe in church discipline. Scripture tells us that ‘God kindness was meant to lead us to repentance’ (Romans 2:4) and that ‘God disciplines those whom He loves’ (Proverbs 3:12). These two passages are very instructive for us.

First, we learn the reason for Grace i.e. God’s patience, forbearance and kindness in Romans 2:4 is that they are all meant to ‘lead us’ to repentance. God’s kindness is not shown to his children to endorse ‘extra years’ of sin, debauchery and licentiousness in the Far Country (Luke 15). To the contrary, they are shown to His children to LEAD US to repentance (turning from our sin TO Christ). Our sin sent Jesus to the cross. He didn’t go to the cross to allow us to be sent back from that cross to feast on the very sin which put him there. Tim Keller says that the reason we must preach the deep grace of God is because it is ONLY true grace which is more attractive than our sin. Only the love of God is more alluring that the tantalizing morsels of sin which we so dearly love. We MUST preach true grace if we ever hope to see our hearts warmed away from sin! So the first reason we preach the patience, kindness and GRACE of God is so that when the law exposes our sin we might be convicted of our failures and drawn to Him in repentance and faith.

Grace NEVER leads to license (a ‘free ticket’ to sin to your heart’s content), true grace ALWAYS leads to brokenness over our sin, humility about the fact that we are sinners and repentance (turning back) toward God. When we say ‘it’s okay that you’re not okay’ we are making a statement about the acceptance you have through Jesus’ righteousness, we are NOT making the statement that your present sin won’t harm you.

Secondly, Proverbs 3:12 tells us that ‘God disciplines those whom he loves’. Consider the unruly child in a restaurant. Imagine parents allowing the child to throw food, scream, yell, take food off of other tables and create general havoc. Imagine the parents doing nothing. Is that love or indifference? It certainly isn’t love! In scenarios like that people often whisper to each other, “I would never let my child do that….” Why is that? Because we LOVE our children and therefore we DISCIPLINE them. We learned this from Him. The Father in Heaven does not dispense grace to His children in order to allow us to indulge in the rebellion of our own hearts. He isn’t an absentee parent who has set the table and walked away telling us to ‘do what we think is best.’ He is a loving Father who has set boundaries for us about what is spiritually nourishing and what isn’t. Because He loves us; He disciplines us.

So where does the church come in? Jeremiah 17:9 tells us that our hearts are desperately wicked and deceitful. We are blind to our own sins. One of the benefits of being a member of the body of Christ is that we have a community of believers committed to helping us see what we are normally blind to i.e. our sin. To use our restaurant analogy: sometimes we sit down at the table and begin to indulge in things that will harm us, but in our own spiritual blindness we convince ourselves that we are ‘eating healthy.’ It is the responsibility of other believers and the church elders to patiently, humbly and gently help us to see our blind spots. In the exposure of those ‘blind spots’ we are urged to turn from our sin unto Christ i.e. repentance. Grace tells us that repentant sinners are welcomed, loved, embraced and sung over (Zeph. 3:17).
Scripture tells us that such repentance WILL produce fruit. A man repenting over stealing his neighbors cable T.V. signal will not only repent and confess to the Lord, but the fruit of that repentance and confession will ‘look like’ disconnecting the cable. If not, one must sincerely ask whether the repentance was genuine. More importantly he must ask whether the faith which he claimed to have was indeed genuine faith. “Faith” which claims that Christ’s work set sinners free to indulge in sin is not faith at all. It is self-deception masquerading as religion.

Some might say, “My life is my life. This is not anyone else’s business. The church should stay out of it!” My gentle response would simply be this: the church is involved because at some point in the past the individual asked the church to be involved. When someone joins the church they are asked, “Are you willing to submit yourself to the government and discipline of the church?” This question establishes a bond of accountability whereby a new member confesses their tendency, as a sinner, to wander from the fold. It is a formal vow requesting that, if in fact, they wander, that the church move toward them with the goal of restoration. If someone plunges headlong into sin and the church does nothing then this is not a picture of love, it is a tragic picture of abandonment. The child being disciplined by his parents at the table is not an orphan, but the unruly hellion throwing food around the restaurant may eventually find themselves alone, with no one there. Grace bestows discipline on those it loves. Where there is no discipline there is no love. The son is disciplined, but the orphan is alone left to his sin and himself.

Grace doesn’t eliminate the need for discipline; it establishes it. Because of God’s grace we now have a relationship with Him and because of that relationship with Him we are chastened as children by a loving Father. We must understand that He uses many different means to discipline us: the preaching of the Word, the conviction of the Spirit and also the formal discipline by the local church. The latter may include exhortation, encouragement, rebuke, censure, suspension from the Sacraments or even (at the farthest extreme) removal from the church roll via excommunication. Each step has one goal in mind: restoration. All formal discipline is aimed at the restoration of sinners, first to their Father and secondly to their neighbor.

The old hymn “Amazing Grace” means what it says in those words, ‘tis grace has brought me safe thus far and grace will lead me home!’ Grace doesn’t simply open the door to heaven and set us free to live in depths of sin, grace has brought us safe thus far and grace will lead us home. It is the church’s passion and mine to shepherd the sheep safely home BECAUSE we believe in grace!

Comments

Anonymous | January 18 2011 at 12:30 am

Thank you and praise God for this blog. I have found this to be extremely edifying and has shown me what true discipline and repentance entails.

Anonymous | February 09 2011 at 9:23 pm

In the past, SPC has disciplined various elders. Did those elders ever repent? If so, were they reinstated as elders?

Jean F. Larroux, III | February 12 2011 at 9:04 am

It would NEVER be our practice to discuss the specifics of formal discipline of any members (elders or otherwise) on a format such as this, so please understand my lack of a direct answer is not evasive, but rather an attempt at proper discretion. Repentance, of course, is an ongoing process/lifestyle of turning from sin and to Christ. The focus in any instance of discipline is repentance and restoration in one’s relationship with God and then with others. In the case of church officers, whether they be elders, deacons or ministers, the general principle would hold that repentance CAN lead to reinstatement, depending on the circumstances and the use of godly wisdom. However, repentance does not equal reinstatement to any office. For the service to any office in the church the congregation must nominate and elect those individuals to stand for election. Those nominations are usually vetted through the pastoral care committee and then elections are held. This process would be the same for all individuals INCLUDING men who had been nominated for office and had previously been under formal discipline or had demitted the office.

Carleton | April 09 2011 at 4:37 pm

During the 27 March sermon there was a statement that the small group questions of the week echoed.  That statement was:

“Next thing you know we’ll be telling people that divorced people can take communion, adulterers can be elders and that the town whore can wear white at her wedding—-They can. There are. And she should.”

From my perspective, mixing in church elder misconduct with those that are not in church office resulted in a confusing message.  Was the intent to say that Southwood does not consider adultery by a church elder as grounds for discipline - and that discipline would likely include removal from office? 

It appears to me that the Bible lays out some standards for qualification to be an elder that are different than the standards for those taking communion and particularly for getting married.  In fact, as far as wedding dress color, that would be more of a social norm than anything I remember reading from the Bible. So we’ve mixed in a mere social norm with the standards to partake of the Lord’s supper along with the qualifications to hold the office of elder.

I am concerned if we feel that grace gives license for church officers to be immune from consequences for their misconduct and can’t help but feel that this was not the true intent of the statement under discussion.  Most significant is the impression that it appears that the church is advocating that we should ignore the clear Biblical standards for church office.

YBIC

Anonymous | October 22 2011 at 11:35 am

IT IS ALL TWISTED - That feeling in your gut is telling you that what you are seeing and hearing is not right. You don’t want to believe it. Nobody wants to believe we have lost the love and peace that was once Southwood. But do you see it anywhere? Seek the God you know and not the message and actions that are contrary.

Ephesians 6:10-12
10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. 11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

Please know that one of the Pastors that Jean references and praises is Tullian Tchividjian. He caused the split of Coral Ridge PCA church. The conservatives were driven out and had to form a new church. Do you think that is not taking place at Southwood?

Brock Warner | October 22 2011 at 5:37 pm

This is to the anonymous “It is all twisted” poster.  I think I read your post with a great deal of sorrow mostly because of the generalities that have been posted and the determination it appears to cause or encourage fractions within Southwood while at the same time using Scripture to portray your comments as helpful or loving. 

I fully realize we have a number of people who are struggling with the vision, mission and focused preaching on the Gospel of Grace, but it is unfair to all of the others at Southwood who are coming alive and falling in love with Christ to say that there is no love or peace. 

Jean does reference Tullian, but Jean is not a disciple of Tullian.  In addition, as a member of the search committee we were actually pretty “up” on the fractures at Coral Ridge.  While it may seem easy to say a pastor caused the split it is not accurate.  In addition, the members who left were not driven out, they left after they pushed for a vote( which was encourage by Tullian and the elders) of no confidence and lost.

Making this a conservative vs. liberal ( I assume that would be my camp because I am not unhappy) is just not a loving way to describe this either.  I assume that this is not a political issue but rather a “belief” statement.  I would also assume based on my membership vows and ordination vows that you and I ascribe to the exact same tenants of our faith. 

Finally, I am praying for you this evening, you seem to be hurt and you seem to be angry.  I know those feelings and have experienced them and reacted in similar ways.  I hope that you would consider your motivations and see whether the Lord has a different way for you to communicate and interact.

Brock Warner | October 24 2011 at 9:14 am

Just today an article in Christianity Today came out.  It is an interview with Tulian about the struggles he had at Coral Ridge.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/le/2011/fall/warpeace.html

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Recommended Reading

  • Jesus+Nothing = Everything
    Jesus+Nothing = Everything
    Tullian Tchividjian

    “Jesus + Nothing = Everything will remind you of the ancient yet ever-fresh truth that everything we need is found in the perfections of Christ—not in ourselves, not in our reputation, our relationships or wealth or accomplishments—in Christ alone. If you’ve never rested in the finished work of Christ this book is for you. If you’ve rested in it for decades like I have, this book is for you, too. Why? Because we forget; And, although we love Jesus, we’re blind to the ways in which his work connects to our daily lives and we wonder why joy and zeal are foreign concepts to us.” -Elyse Fitzpatrick

  • A Scandalous Freedom

    Get ready to be bothered by the Gospel. Steve Brown teaches grace in a way that gets under your skin—- Reading Brown is like having a gospel hair in your mouth of your conscience. The more it bothers you the more beautiful the pearl produced will be

  • The Gospel Mystery of Sanctification

    From the publisher: “It is a deep and rich biblical study of sanctification - how Christians grow in holiness and become more like Jesus. In a day when Christians are very prone to pursue self-help methods to grow in obedience to Christ, Walter Marshall lays out the biblical way of growth: obedience comes as Christians live by grace, in union with Christ, by faith.” This book influenced me PROFOUNDLY on the topic of sanctification. The Modern-English re-write makes this a TOP PICK for 2011!

  • 12 Steps for the Recovering Pharisee (like me)

    I ‘accidentally’ picked up this book simply for the title alone. I grew to hate it quickly. It hit a little ‘too close to home.’ Fischer’s book plunges the scalpel of self-awareness and need for deep repentance deep into the hard hearts of Pharisees like ME!

Recommended Listening

  • Redeemer Presbyterian Church
    Ricky Jones

    Ricky Jones is the pastor of Redeemer Presbyterian Church in Tulsa, Oklahoma. He is a trophy of grace. If you want to listen to bold preaching by a man who knows his sin, knows his weaknesses and trusts only Jesus to take what he says and use it to God’s glory then you are heading in the right direction. The preaching is bold, the preacher is humble and you will be blessed.

  • Key Life Ministries
    Steve Brown

    Steve Brown is not the most subtle guy you will ever meet. If I were to write an S.A.T. question about Steve this is how it would go: Steve Brown is to legalism what a child hopped-up on cake and ice cream is to an pinata! I love this guy. Check out his website and fair warning: you are not heading to a ‘SAFE’ little Christian site!

  • Coral Ridge Presbyterian
    Tullian Tchividjian

    As one comment on iTunes said: “Tullian preaches the Gospel in an unadulterated and undomesitcated way…The way it should be preached!”

Recommended Links

  • Mockingbird Blog
    David Zahl

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  • White Horse Inn
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  • On Earth as it is in Heaven
    Tullian Tchividjian

    William Graham Tullian Tchividjian (pronounced cha-vi-jin) is a Florida native, the pastor of Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church in Fort Lauderdale, a visiting professor of theology at Reformed Theological Seminary, and a grandson of Billy and Ruth Graham.

  • Heavenward
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    Smith is the founding Pastor of Christ Community Church in Franklin, TN, avid writer, prolific blogger and tweeter. His nuggets of Gospel wisdom are seasoned by years of service to the Bride. He is gentle and very purposed in his every comment.